On Parenting as Queer Post-Soviet Jews in the US
Raia Kogan and Irina Zadov, interviewed by Bex Michelson (2023)
Bex: tell us a little about yourself and your journey to parenthood.
Raia: I always wanted to be a parent, it was a deep and intuitive longing. I used to paint pictures of myself cradling a new born. I had a miscarriage in another relationship prior to meeting my spouse so my longing was strong even in the beginning of this new relationship.
Ira: I knew I wanted to be a parent since I myself was a child. I envisioned myself giving birth in the forest, surrounded by birches, wild strawberries, mushrooms, and helpful creatures like bunnies and squirrels. The actual experience of getting pregnant and giving birth was not so idyllic. My journey to pregnancy took 5 years from my first miscarriage, and included 3 rounds of IUI, 3 rounds of IVF, and a surgery on my uterus. I’m grateful to have access to health insurance, a loving partner, and supporting family and friends.
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Bex: In what ways do you draw from your own upbringing in a post-Soviet immigrant family to inform your parenting approaches and choices?
Raia: In Minsk, we lived in an intergenerational neighborhood with many relatives around and my early immigration story in Brooklyn continued this theme. Even when my family moved to a suburban neighborhood, we continued to live in an intergenerational extended family household. While I don’t desire this kind of closeness with either of our extended families, I long to create deep and lasting intentional community with chosen family that creates a feeling of kinship for our children. I do feel like my parenting style and approach is very different. Emotional attunement, individuality, and explaining big changes to a child were not known concepts in my family growing up. I try to explain changes to my child and also model our approach on her unique needs and temperament rather than some standard of behavior.
I will also say that being a refugee and family history of antisemitism and holocaust trauma creates a hypervigilance to danger which has been heightened in the trump era and current moment. My spouse is trans so that increases worry about experiencing some violence or lack of freedom with the current laws, even though we live in a very queer area.
Ira: I also grew up in Minsk in a multigenerational family. I lived in the same home as my parents and grandparents and within a 15 minute walk of my aunts, uncles, and cousins from birth to high school. Although our family had their conflicts and traumas, we were all very close and I remember spending beautiful summers at our dacha, and carefree evenings playing in the communal yard being watched over and cared for by many loving adults. Our immigration to the US in 1991 caused a major split in my family. My mom and her side of the family wanted to immigrate, my dad and his side did not. I didn’t know this at the time, but my parents almost got divorced during their immigration process. This created tensions, conflicts, and strife that would impact the family dynamics for decades to come. I can still feel the reverberations of this 30 years later.
When I became pregnant, I asked my mom a lot of questions about her pregnancy, labor, birth, and childcare in the USSR. Some things that stood out were that she received a paid year of maternity leave, free healthcare and childcare, and never had to worry about job insecurity or financial struggles as a result of becoming a parent. For me, the process of becoming pregnant cost $10,000-$15,000 - this is with really good health insurance from my government job - without insurance, the 3 rounds of IUI and 3 rounds of IVF would have cost us at least $100,000. Giving birth at a hospital (vaginally) cost about $6,000. Childcare in our neighborhood costs between $20,000-$25,000 per year.
It feels a little crass to talk about money, but I feel like we have to. This is America - and this is how capitalism shows up. There’s an organized abandonment of birthing people and families - few have access to paid family leave, childcare, and healthcare before, after, or during pregnancy. It’s criminal that we live in the wealthiest country in the world and people have to struggle so much just to have a child. I’ve also read that postpartum depression is a very American phenomenon because in other cultures birthing people are surrounded by multigenerational communities of care and/or have access to government support during and after their pregnancy.
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Bex: How, if at all, has becoming a parent changed your perspectives on how you were raised?
Raia: Witnessing how spirited and strong willed and full of personality my child is can be a strong contrast to my own upbringing where children were meant to be compliant and shaped into all the same. I was often described as polite and easygoing, but I know now that those ways of being for very young children can come out of fear, in safety kids express diverse and big emotions and compliance is not a virtue.
Ira: Becoming a parent has been humbling. I’m so exhausted all the time and I’m honestly really grateful to my parents, grandparents, and extended family for taking care of me amidst the anxiety, fear, and trauma that was living in the Soviet Union and immigrating to the United States. I can’t imagine picking up my family and moving to a country where I don’t know anyone and don’t speak the language in my mid 30s.
I’m also aware that because of the Soviet context, my parents raised me in a pretty strict and socially conservative environment. We had patriarchal gender norms, there were times of emotional and physical abuse, and reverberations of intergenerational trauma. When my mom describes how my brother and I were raised she says “you didn’t have a choice.” By this, I think she’s referring to what we ate, what we wore, etc. I also don’t recall a lot of modeling when it comes to healthy boundaries, apologies, and non-punitive consequences. There was a lot of fear-based, and “because I told you so” type of parenting. That being said, I know that my parents honestly did their best and I consider myself lucky that I lived in a mostly stable and loving home.
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Bex: Can you share some anecdotes or experiences that highlight the beautiful moments and struggles you've faced while raising your children in this unique cultural context?
Raia: I think for me there was a deep tension when my spouse and I bought a house and moved to a smaller town. I felt like it somehow symbolized this movement towards an american nuclear family, property ownership, even colonization while at the same time it was a stability that our family deeply needed after several years of housing instability as renters. I reflected on the refugee experience and my own lifetime of housing instability and how that somehow felt more comfortable and familiar than the stability.
I also feel strange moments of invisibility in my life. As an ashkenazi jew in certain communities, there is an assumption that I come from more privilege than I do. People don’t assume that I’m an immigrant because of the way I present. At times, if my spouse isn’t there, I can fit in in mom’s circles or classes, but those settings became increasingly uncomfortable and I’ve really prioritized building queer community for my family, other queer parents and folks who enjoy children and being in extended familial roles. Parenting includes being in a lot of heteronormative spaces, preschool, dance classes etc. I often have to balance being a fierce advocate, my own rebellious feistiness and feeling like an outsider, and also being willing to get to know diverse and well meaning folks.
Ira: My partner also comes from an immigrant family from the Philippines - so we have a lot of shared experiences of growing up in the diaspora and being 1st and 2nd generation. Some of our joys have been watching our parents interact with our child in Russian and Visayan - having her try different cultural foods and holidays from our respective cultures. What’s been challenging for both of us has been navigating race and religion. His family is Catholic, mine is Jewish; I’m white, he’s brown. We’re both aware of the political dynamics of these identities and at times it can be challenging to make collective decisions about Zoya (our baby’s) future. For example, when Zoya was born - the race on her birth certificate was “white” we had to advocate for them to add “Asian.”
We signed her up to be in a Guatemalan Jewish daycare so she’s learning Spanish and they’re practicing Jewish holidays, but she’s the only non-white baby at daycare. Because we live in a very segregated city we really have to go out of our way to find diverse communities of parents - so it’s a concerted effort to make friends with other interracial families.
I have a lot of queer Jewish friends, but most of them are white. Michael has a lot of Filipino friends but most of them are not Jewish - so it’s always a little challenging to figure out what to do for holidays, how to engage both of our communities in meaningful ways without having to choose. Something that feels very affirming is interfaith and multiracial spaces - our friend Hina hosted a Ramadan / Passover / Easter party at her house and there were lots of mixed race and interfaith kids and families. I want to cultivate more of that.
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Bex: What role does community play in your parenting journey, and how do you find support within both the queer and Jewish communities?
Raia: This summer, there was a culmination of hatred from two members of my spouse’s family around many things, but included how my child was conceived. It grew my longing to cultivate cousins for my child outside of or in addition to our genetic family and we’ve been building that with our queer community. Jewish community has also been vital, and the anchor of honoring cycles, shabbats, holidays etc. It is important to hold and honor that there is a deeply embodied jewish experience I bring even though I don’t have the same experience of things like hebrew. As an immigrant and also a generally rebellious/outsider feeling person, it’s been transformative to recognize that jewish and queer communities are quirky and my family and I fit as much as anyone else.
Ira: I’m honestly longing for more queer Jewish community. Most of my queer Jewish friends don’t have kids and most Jewish events I get invited to - are not really kid-friendly (almost all of them start after Zoya’s bedtime). There are a few other Jewish parents at our daycare but they’re not queer. We have one anti-Zionist congregation in Chicago - but it’s led by a cis / het man. So that’s been challenging.
I met a young rabbi and his wife who have little kids and host Jewish holidays at their house on the playground, but I’m pretty sure they’re Zionist and straight. It’s honestly challenging to find the blend of queer, Jewish, non-Zionist, parents in Chicago. But I’m gonna keep trying.
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Bex: What advice would you give to other queer, post-Soviet immigrant Jews in the diaspora who are navigating the complexities of parenting?
Raia: Reach out, find connection, I’m here if you need me. There are not that many of us and it’s a unique experience. Surprising things come up, traumas that have already been felt and healed may emerge. There is a feeling of preciousness also, as descendents of people who lost so much and as queers who may not achieve pregnancy as easily and it’s hard to bring a balanced quality of surrender to parenting. I would also encourage it, lightly, even with climate change and a world that feels like it’s ending. Just like our grandparents and great grandparents had children in strange circumstances, it is a radically hopeful thing to do.
Ira: I really love Raia’s beautiful advice! I’m so new to parenting that I don’t think I’m ready to give advice yet since I’m still trying to figure it out. But, the one thing I can share for certain, is the important part to parenting is having community. Whether that’s your bio fam, chosen fam, queer Jewish community, or otherwise. Know who your people are - invite them to support you before the baby is born - ask for what you need. Parenting in this society can feel so isolating and alienating - finding and creating and leaning on community is really the most important part in this really beautiful and challenging journey. Happy to talk to anyone who’s considering it!